11/05/2020
Long read...but makes some sense.
Windows has no real future?
So I got many comments on my previous article, many by Windows 10 users who are ignorant to modern Linux. I still see people claiming that Ubuntu is terrible... and throw 16.04 LTS into the argument. I have seen this happen so often, and people who do not understand Linux or what it has now always try to throw the claim "Linux is not as good as Windows 10", and that argument is void of any real arguments. I always hear the same several arguments thrown around, and I have to say that they are about as easily debunkable as flat-earth science.
"Linux doesn't have as much software"
While partially true, in sense of high-end enterprise software from Adobe, you could argue that. However, as you can replace everything to do with Google, you can replace the entire Adobe suite with something on Linux. To focus on the main ones: Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere. Four Linux apps can easily replace them: Kdenlive (video editing), Inkscape (vector graphics), GIMP (image editing and manipulation), Krita (drawing and art). For game developers, I mean you probably heard of these two but Unity Engine supports Linux and Godot supports Linux. GameMaker: Studio (1 and 2) can be easily supported by Proton and Wine, while not losing out on speed. Adobe itself can theoretically run over Wine. Wine being the compatibility layer (not emulator) of Windows programs.
Heck in that same field, gaming. While some companies idiotically ban Linux users for no reason, many others don't. Games like CS:GO, Team Fortress 2, Minecraft, and more fairly large games support Linux out of the box, not to mention so do thousands of games. Some games also work fairly well with Proton, with games like the Sims 3 only needing a slight amount of work (by renaming a couple of files). Games like GTA 5 also work fairly well, and other communities all over the world work their butts off so others can enjoy the games smoothly on Linux.
One last thing for software and that is that Adobe might start supporting Linux one day, and when it does, the survival of Windows 10 is gone.
"Linux is hard to use/install"
Here is the deal. False. Even Arch Linux, a distribution known for being hard is just simply a long process you need to be slightly accurate with. Most distributions not only come with a GUI but also an easy GUI installer. Ubiquity, Calamares, and others all have easier installations than normal Windows 10. Yes, Windows 10 is harder to install than Linux. Not only that, but Linux also has many hardware manufacturers. Companies like HP, Lenovo, Dell, and more support both Linux and Windows 10 to come pre-installed. There are also even manufacturers who are Linux only. System76 is one of the largest of these.
Let's get into using Linux. Well, I can't see how it is harder if you don't pick a distribution that is intentionally difficult like Arch or Gentoo. Most distributions have tools where you can ignore the command line, like the app stores, something Linux has had for a while, even before Apple. To install software, it is harder to do on Windows 10. Let's see the steps to install an app on Windows.
Google the app name/go to the website
Make sure you download the right thing
Go through the install wizard
Restart your computer (might not be required for all apps)
Now on Linux, there are three ways to do it. Let's go through the CLI method first, the GUI method, and the app store method.
CLI:
Google what the package is called on your package manager
Run the package manager. (Optional: Update repos)
GUI:
Google the app name/go to the website
Download the proper edition (.deb, .rpm, .AppImage)
Install it and run it
App Store:
Open the app store on your distribution (if one is supported)
Search for the app
Install the app and run it.
So Linux does it faster, and easier. With three methods to do it, and much more possibly supported. Even Flatpak and Snap can centralize the process, so if you use a smaller distribution it won't be as much of an issue on the supported repos. And for the CLI method, on Ubuntu, that command would be sudo apt install some-package, Arch Linux it is sudo pacman -S some-package, Fedora it would be sudo dnf install some-package and I think you get the point.
Many Windows 10 stans always claim that "Linux is worse because you need the CLI, which is difficult." Which is false. Nano is easy to write files as you would in notepad, HTop is like Task Manager on Windows, and other tools on the CLI have the same goal. Efficiency. You can 100% ignore the CLI, but the reason it exists to do things faster. You don't have to use it.
"Linux is toxic"
While true sometimes, any community has the toxic parts. Same thing in Windows 10. However, the easiest way to avoid it is to stick with something based on Ubuntu. While you might still see it sometimes, most of the Ubuntu users (including myself) are 100% willing to answer the stupid questions and will enjoy doing it without bullying you. Arch Linux also has it's nicer parts, with people willing to help out, and even Manjaro has a decent community for helping with Arch.
So even the most toxic of Linux isn't that hard to avoid, and it isn't most of these communities. Communities will sometime even learn a little bit for you so you can have an easier time.
Well what about Windows?
Well, there is a lot wrong with Windows. You can't make it your OS. It is filled with adware, bloatware, lagware, and spyware. Also for a US$100 price tag, well that isn't worth it now is it. A lot of Windows only specific apps only need mild work to get running on Linux, those who are more of an issue plan to support Linux (some at least), and major corporations see Linux as a valuable thing to support, including Valve (the people behind CS:GO and Steam) who contributes to Wine and even has a setup of their fork of Wine called Proton, which is built into Steam. What Windows 10 support compared to Linux is the life support of a couple of games who ban Linux users for no reason and Adobe, but if Adobe supports Linux, Windows 10 will no doubt fall. Even now Windows 10 is slowly bleeding users.
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kailyons profile
KaiLikesLinux
I am Kai Lyons, a general OS enthusiast, programming language fanatic, and domain extension guru. I have weird hobbies. Developer of Ubuntu Lumina.
KaiLikesLinux KaiLyons kailikeslinux.io
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fcrozetta profile image Fernando Crozetta github logoMay 10Dropdown menu
As a linux user, who time and time again goes back to windows, here are some considerations I have:
Everything is easier after you know how to do it
Windows is easier for most user because they are used to it. on companies it's probably the OS they will see all day.
At home, the majority of people use windows as well. The cognitive load to learn a new OS is huge. I use linux almost everyday, and I still struggle on what is the name of the programs (dolphin, epiphany, and other names are not really nice to know what they do...)
Yes, it may be easier for us, who know how things work, but not for the common user, who uses MS word, MS outlook, and MS Edge (chrome, if you are lucky).
One of the companies I had a contract some time ago asked me why outlook was crashing. The reason was because the files were to big for outlook to handle. They would not remove old emails, and ask me to solve it. Mozilla thunderbird was the best solution, but it took me almost an year to train the users to open thunderbird instead of outlook. A YEAR. seriously. nobody complain about the change anymore, and everyone who uses it loves it, but it was a really problem at the time.
It's not easy to change people's mindset, and even harder to change their mindset AND their daily tools.
Someone who knows how to use photoshop on a daily basis also will know how to find solution for their problems. The same way we know, almost by instinct that stackoverflow will have a clue on what is wrong with our code, other professions will have theirs. Changing this will make their work go in a slower speed, and maybe with a lower quality, until they know how to use the new tools correctly. Not everyone can, or want, to do this.
Community pressure
What would you say to someone who uses notepad to code, and is struggling with it? Install vscode, use VIM, etc...
The same happens in the other industries as well... When they struggle to install the printer, and ask someone, what you think they will say? Install windows.
Or even worse, when the printers is not compatible with linux, and there is nothing they can do about it. How does the user feel? They know that on windows that printer would work, but now they have to just..... throw it away, and buy a new one? This is crazy, nobody would do that.
Interface
Yeah, the interface.... before it was ugly, and now it's ok. not perfect. its OK. And I'm considering the modern ones, not the ones that look like a rip off of win95.
Speaking of Win95, have seen the interface for programs like LibreOffice?
LibreOffice word processor
Straight from windows 95/98, right?
Yes, you can use GDocs, but not everyone will do it. Most homes and companies will prefer a local app for that.
Why do I go back to windows?
Yeah... now here is the fun part. I don't like windows, i think it's memory consumption is terrible, and the windows defender is a pain in the butt...
However, skype for business work only on windows (regular skype should kinda work on linux), and NVIDIA, and printers, etc...
Now, I know that this is not a fault on the OS side, BUT it doesn't allow me to work, or communicate with colleagues, or print something(I confess I gave up on printers at this point).
YEs, NVIDIA is responsible for the Graphics card lack of drivers, but the problems between nvidia and linux is not MY problem either.
Game development
Yes, unity should have support, but Unreal engine, the biggest one, that bigger games are developed.... Not really. Again, not the OS fault, but people will not use it, if it doesn't solve their problem, right?
conclusion?
I really hope that adobe start to work on linux, and other programs start to work on linux, because i really would be proud of us, who advocate for those changes.
I just don't see this happening so soon (or at all)
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scgrk profile image Stephen Gerkin github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Here, here! I 100% agree with what you've said. I love how easy it is to develop in Linux compared to Windows. But I also have 20 years of experience using a Windows machine so I lose some productivity with a pure Linux environment. Sure, I could learn how to do everything all over again and probably be just as productive, but I have better things to do with my time.
And then, as you mentioned, is the issue of drivers. Getting Ubuntu 20.04 to work with my NVIDIA card was not as difficult as I expected; however, I definitely notice it does not work as well as it does in Windows. I also have a few peripherals that are created with Windows users in mind. I'm not interested in replacing any of those to switch to another operating system. And there are a few programs I have been using for years that I couldn't get working with WINE.
I make due using Chocolatey or WSL where I can (which covers ~95% of my workflow), a VM when I need it, and when all else fails, I have dual-boot set up.
I am by no means a Windows fanboy. But to say that Windows has no future because you're a developer and cannot see the myriad of use cases for a Windows machine outside of your own world is myopic at best.
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siy profile image Sergiy Yevtushenko github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
By the way, with WSL Microsoft repeating a mistake made by IBM with OS/2 and Windows 3.x: IBM enabled running windows applications inside OS/2 and as a consequence nobody cared to create native versions of the software. Once software vendors realize that by switching to linux versions they can cover "both worlds" amount of windows-only software will quickly drain.
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eldarshamukhamedov profile image Eldar Shamukhamedov github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
For web and other development, I think this is already the case, and WSL is Microsoft admitting that they have to support Linux software. But it's also not a mistake on their part. Say what you want about Windows, but it's GUI is rock solid. Getting to use it, while still having access to Linux for development in a (nearly) seamless integration is a win win.
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
"Say what you want about Windows, but it's GUI is rock solid."
KDE is better... I hate KDE. Cinnamon is a very stable one with a similar look, and Deepin is just fine as well (and Deepin can also look like macOS, and honestly is better looking than even macOS).
Other than that you make a fair-ish point.
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siy profile image Sergiy Yevtushenko github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
OS/2 was rock solid in comparison to constantly failing Windows and ability to just restart died app was a win win for users. OS/2 was more stable, had much faster file system and great memory management which resulted in significantly better performance. OS/2 also had much better and far more advanced object oriented UI. Modern Windows still can't compete to Workplace Shell even after 25 years.
None of these advantages did help OS/2 to survive. So, I'm pretty sure that MS committing a mistake.
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thomazmoura profile image Thomaz Moura github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Exactly. To be sincere it gets a little tiring to hear year after year that this will be the year that Linux will finally win over Windows and that everyone will suddenly realize how it's better.
Frankly, as both a Windows and Linux user I think it's easier to me to recommend developers on Windows to try WSL2 as soon as it's on stable than it would be to recommend the average user to move to Linux.
To me the biggest problem with Linux is that everyone seems to forget how steep the learning curve is after climbing it and just suppose everyone will be as inclined to go through that learning process. And constant fights and ego issues don't help anyone either.
And from my experience convincing my co-workers to move to better tools and tech (such as moving to Git from TFVC, using CI/CD instead of manual deploys, and things like these) it doesn't really matter how better the alternative is. They will always be resistant to change what they're used to. And if the current solution is already solving their problems any tiny friction can make they consider it's not worth the change at all. And boy there's a lot of friction on a move to Linux.
Heck, I've just tried Ubuntu 20.04 and I had to install gdebi just so I could install Chrome. And this is because Canonical devs decided .deb packages aren't as cool anymore now that they have their own thing.
How the hell do you expect the average user to move to Linux if they can't even install Chrome smoothly because some devs decided it doesn't matter?
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shaneeverittm profile image Shane Murphy github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
The poiny a lot of people miss isn't what works on Linux, it's what doesn't. One program or feature can make or break the decision. Coming from someone with a Linux desktop and windows/wsl desktop
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fcrozetta profile image Fernando Crozetta github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Agreed,
everyone has its own way to work and be productive.
But, I never said windows has no future... quite the opposite. I guess this was meant to the OP ?
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scgrk profile image Stephen Gerkin github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Yes! Sorry that wasn't clear. I was definitely directing my ire towards the OP, not you :) You pretty much summed up everything I was going to say in my original knee-jerk response in a much more succinct way.
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adwaitthattey profile image Adwait Thattey twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I am seeing more and more people and organisations switch to GSuite over MSOffice.
Also GSuite works offline and is much cheaper.
Slack and Teams work much better than skype and both have linux native apps (or coming soon)
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Slack has one, Skype (regular) has one, Teams might have one. Alternative apps: Telegram, Discord, Zoom. All have a client for Linux.
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explodingwalrus profile image Carl Draper twitter logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I'm using an Nvidia card in my desktop. It works fine. Skype? I didn't even think it had a proper desktop app any more, isn't it just an electron app now?
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akashkava profile image Akash Kava twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
This battle had existed since inception of Linux, if all arguments were true, Windows would have died a decade ago.
The only problem with all arguments is, knowing and using Linux is just more of a fantasy.
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siy profile image Sergiy Yevtushenko github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Windows is still alive just because vast majority of users did get windows together with computer and then gets used to it. Look into comments above - even IT people often get used to windows and don't want to try to switch completely because they "have better things to do with my time".
Overall popularity often has nothing in common with real technical qualities, otherwise Windows 95 would loose to OS/2 Warp and Windows NT - to Linux decades ago.
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Fair enough, but as I mentioned that is slowly becoming less of an issue. Also, I pointed out that if fulfilled have a high probability of stabbing Windows having it bleed a huge amount of users as many would still switch, even if it was because an article like "Adobe Supports Linux" and/or "Adobe now supported on Ubuntu" causing curiousity
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siy profile image Sergiy Yevtushenko github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Yes, hardware vendors turning towards Linux more and more. For example, recently Lenovo added more Linux laptops to their product range.
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
A person from Lenovo joined a Linux podcast, joined by a Fedora developer. I thought that was fun.
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siy profile image Sergiy Yevtushenko github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Lenovo will be shipping several new models of laptops with Fedora preinstalled. Here is the official announcement.
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v6 profile image Nathan B🛡 github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
have a high probability of stabbing Windows having it bleed a huge amount of users
Yesss, YESSS, give in, to your anger.
But seriously, we need more metaphors like this in technical discussions. Gets the blood flowing, so to speak.
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
"if all arguments were true, Windows would have died a decade ago."
I mean not necessarily, and Windows 10 is bleeding users.
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eldarshamukhamedov profile image Eldar Shamukhamedov github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Is it, though? Overall PC sales are declining, as more people switch to mobile devices for their day to day, but that's not the same as folks switching to Linux. Ubuntu is never going to be more popular than Windows; it just doesn't have enough financial backing to reach the level of polish users expect. That said, Linux in the form of Android, Chrome OS, or some other big-tech backed distro is likely what we'll end up with as most applications move into the browser. At that point, though, it won't matter what the underlying OS is, as long as it can run a browser. Mind you, I'm not taking about is developers; I'm talking about my mom, or a ten year old that needs to get some homework done.
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
"Ubuntu is never going to be more popular than Windows; it just doesn't have enough financial backing to reach the level of polish users expect."
From Canonical - The company behind Ubuntu - this is their list of partners.
https://dev-to-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/i/o0s1de6kuo4wg50507nq.png
Microsoft is on there, and so is Azure (a Microsoft owned product). Not to mention 3 OEMs and 3 hardware makers I can recognize, plus a major telecom, plus Google (via a cloud platform, but still google) and Amazon (via AWS, but still amazon), plus Oracle, plus IBM.
Not only is Ubuntu well sponsored, but also some sponsors are partial/full competitors. IBM with Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Microsoft with Windows 10 and Azure Sphere (Azure Sphere is a Linux server operating system), Google with ChromeOS and Android (both Linux based platforms, ChromeOS being forked from Gentoo), plus Google's experiment Fucsia.
Also with the whole world going mobile, two things.
Linux is getting deeper into that with Linux mobile operating systems and ARM-based systems for the raspberry pi.
PC sales are dipping due to more than the fact mobile is growing. I cannot say, with how the world is currently, that mobile devices like tablets or phones will replace computers ever. Most of those devices are being given to kids anyways.
Also also, ChromeOS will not take over the market, it would not be sane. Yes, many schools and offices might invest into it, dekstops and laptops will forever hold place, until desktops die out, where laptops will stay.
My 5 cents.
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eldarshamukhamedov profile image Eldar Shamukhamedov github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
That's kind of my point. Linux popularity is growing, but that's not the same as Ubuntu as a primary desktop OS growing. Microsoft is a partner because it relies on Linux for Azure and WSL.
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siy profile image Sergiy Yevtushenko github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I'm talking about my mom, or a ten year old that needs to get some homework done.
Linux was great for those categories of users even 10 years ago. Moreover, it was (and still it) rock-solid and easily survived for years without any need for external maintenance. Unlike windows which required clean reinstall every 2-3 months or so, just because registry was filled with garbage and whole system was full of viruses and malware.
All of the above is from my personal experience, because I've installed linux for my mom and for my kids.
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barzi92367868 profile image Barzi twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I'm a Linux user, and as a software developer I'm quite happy with it. But you have to put yourself in the shoes of the average computer user. While Linux can be good for a class of expert computer users, it won't be simple for everyone. When I got my laptop, since it's using proprietary firmware for its wifi, I couldn't connect to the internet and I had to use my other PC in order to find and download drivers. They had to be compiled and installed using the shell. This operation alone would be difficult and scary for 80% of the users out there.
If you are trying to use Linux to do graphics design professionally, good luck. Gimp doesn't slightly compare to Photoshop in terms of file format integration, ease of use, user interface, user experience and functionalities.
Let alone sound design, gaming, professional accounting, professional 3D rendering and animation, and so on...
Linux can be good for the computer expert and enthusiast. But it's not a good OS for the others.
These are my 5 cents, and I am a 15+ years Linux-only user, so I don't think I'm too biased towards Windows.
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
GIMP is slowly but surely improving to levels of Photoshop, Inkscape is a solid vector graphics editor (while having a learning curve), Krita is a top-tier art program. GIMP is still very powerful and I am fine using it. Plus you are seeing more and more support for proprietary hardware like NVIDIA support on Linux, plus tools are being developed to help with that. Plus as I said, when Adobe turns Linux, Windows falls. Sound design has tools like Audacity, bitwig. Professional accounting is an area I do not know about. Professional 3D rendering, well I know CAD software is on Linux, and Blender (3D animation tool) is available on Linux. Gaming, well that has tools like Lutris and Steam, Proton, and Wine. Animation, Synfig Studio is a fair choice. Areas you did not mention but also work are video editing with Kdenlive, Openshot, Shotcut. Office software has many options, my personal favorite is LibreOffice.
Not to mention Adobe can work on Linux if you are savvy enough. Game development, there is Unity and Godot. Online chat, Discord, Telegram, IRC tools like Pidgin, Skype, Zoom.
Plus the average computer user will not even need the high-end professional tools, just things that work. If they REALLY need to edit a photo, GIMP is fairly easy to pick up. They need to email someone, well they will do that over browser which only the new Edge browser isn't yet supported. If they want to play games, yes they are semi-limited but not horribly. Note pad editors are plentiful, and if the user is comfortable enough to do it, they can do it in the CLI.
"Linux can be good for the computer expert and enthusiast. But it's not a good OS for the others." is just simply false.
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antihedra profile image AntiHedra github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Ok, so what about professional creative work? Every piece of professional software has its own workflow, capabilities, and compatibilities. You can't just throw a blanket on the whole digital painting community and say 'just get krita', but that's probably the easiest creative group to consider. If you want to talk about 3D professionals, oh boy. The pipelines can get pretty complicated, the programs are even more specific and while yes, Blender is very powerful, it can't do everything its competitors can and its workflow is much different. And the rest of the programs in the pipeline? Does meshroom, substance painter, standalone cloth sims, third party renderers, and hundreds of other plugins work with linux?
For sound designers or music producers, audacity is a laughable suggestion in comparison to the industry standard tools. And GIMP, while it is extremely good for being free, just doesn't even come close to photoshop. Photoshop has so many use cases and a lot of what it can do is specific to it - at least in a single application - I'm sure there's the right mix of specialized, hombrew apps out there which can substitute some of the more photoshop specific features but why would you even try if your freelance work depends on photoshop.
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barzi92367868 profile image Barzi twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I don't want to sound rude, but I guess OP has a lack of real life work experience
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explodingwalrus profile image Carl Draper twitter logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I haven't seen wireless issues in Linux for years. Even proprietary wireless firmware is downloaded over Ethernet at install time.
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dydxgit profile image Muhammad Taha github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I would have loved to agree with you but just yesterday I installed Ubuntu 20.04 on WSL2 and Oh My God, the experience was so so bad. I couldn't even install a lampstack without a plethora of errors throwing up on my face. It was my fourth time using Linux and my Google search was just filled with searching for errors and editing conf files.
I really want to like Linux but it's no way ever going to replace Windows on desktop for the average user.
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
The issue: You are using WSL2.
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drewstaylor profile image Drew Taylor twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
How is that the issue? Seemed more like this user just wasn't comfortable with a Linux workflow.
I've only just upgraded from WSL 1 to 2 a week ago and no issues in Go, Python3, Haskell, or C++ or Lua workflows. I've yet to install Rust, but everything seems to be working fine with everything I've been running and I haven't had issues
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I just got to test WSL2 like... 3 minutes ago, and to me, it isn't a huge improvement in one. You may also reference my other comment. Also, note that I get most WSL knowledge from my friend who works with it.
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siy profile image Sergiy Yevtushenko github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
It's strange to blame linux for problems with WSL.
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adwaitthattey profile image Adwait Thattey twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Use a full distro and you may not run into these many errors
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knilethaman profile image ma daaaa twitter logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Bloatware and ceip can be disabled and removed with one powershell script. And stuff on linux do not work as they do in theory. Did you ever work in enterprise that is not a software company?
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Also with disabling bloatware, it still is there taking up disk space. That's why I also been using the term lagware. You disable the lagware. Plus the spyware isn't easy to get rid of. Plus don't forget the adware.
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knilethaman profile image ma daaaa twitter logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Those are small apps, like 20mb for all if you remove them with powershell you free space from %appdata% and you also can get rid of them by removing them from wim file if you really wanna get rid of them. You can disable everything, use whatever term you wanna use *ware you can remove it. Where I work everything is removed and customed.
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I am 17, I don't even work for a software company,
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knilethaman profile image ma daaaa twitter logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Why do you make this kind of post “windows has no real future” when you don’t even know what is going on? Was this classic click bait?
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nicknallani profile image NiCK 🇮🇳 twitter logoMay 11Dropdown menu
when i say Windows i am taking about windows10..
when i say linux, i have ask, which distribution, release version, kernel version etc etc etc.. and ultimately it may not work for my kind of work and if it stops working i wouldnt know where to go and whom to ask.
ps: I use linux mint tricia and hv been using for last 10 month...
One thing i hv learnt, more option means more confusion, i am never satisfied with my customisation or look or sw i hv installed, 40% of my time goes into this effort..
With Windows, i know i hv limited things to do, so i dont do and dont worry. i save significant time and money
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Easy fix: Just focus more on Ubuntu when talking Linux, they will correct you and then it is done.
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nicknallani profile image NiCK 🇮🇳 twitter logoMay 11Dropdown menu
then i guess, we should base this article on ubuntu and not on linux per se
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I felt to be a little inclusive, but one article I plan to do is an honest and solid comparison between Ubuntu 20.04 and Windows 10. With the help of family members who use Windows 10.
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knilethaman profile image ma daaaa twitter logoMay 11Dropdown menu
rofl
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drewstaylor profile image Drew Taylor twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
It really just depends on what you're doing, and I say this as someone who uses all 3 major operating systems (mac, windows and Linux) on a daily basis.
However, I just wanted to add there's much less if a reason to hate on Windows 10 now that WSL 2 is a thing. I realize WSL 2 isn't available yet to most users (I have it installed on one machine because I installed a Windows 10 Insider Edge build so I could test it out).
Honestly, the difference in performance you get in WSL 2 compared to 1 makes it a very reasonable workflow for integrating Ubuntu smoothly and easily in a Windows environment.
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adwaitthattey profile image Adwait Thattey twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Wsl still does not come close to doing things that you can do on a full linux distro. It's a good start nonetheless.
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drewstaylor profile image Drew Taylor twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Other than virtualization what would be the shortcomings of WSL 2?
WSL 1 I can understand but the upgrade to 2 feels much more like native Linux
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I am unsure what WSL 2 has above 1. I didn't even know there was a 2 until today when people kept saying it, so...
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adwaitthattey profile image Adwait Thattey twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Wsl2 ships with a full kernel. A lot of things that did not work previously now do. I think systemd now works on wsl2 (correct me if I am wrong).
But...
Docker still does not work as great as in a full distro.
Accessing USB drives from wsl is a big pain in the a**
The copy paste key bindings do not work properly
Using the new windows terminal fixes the above issue to an extent but it is a bit buggy.
The files and folders in the NTFS drives regularly become write protected for normal wsl user meaning you need to run chmod everytime
No good support if I wanna use KDE GUI apps on wsl
And so on and so forth...
Right now, wsl feels useless for anyone who has spent a lot of time on linux. It's just a lot of frustration figuring out how to make things work.
The thing I hate the most in windows is its file manager. That piece of software literally has no features of modern file managers.
I heavily use the entire KDE suite of apps and as of now, I can't find any viable alternative to them on windows or any way to make them work in wsl.
That being said, I do feel wsl is a step in right direction and over the next couple of years it will continue to improve.
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zerolegend1996 profile image ZL000000 twitter logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I can see that all of ur arguments depend on compromises. Compromises to use my photoshop, my printer, my unreal engine, etc. If u are a very flexible person (and got the time) to change everything u have been used to, to a new software and new UI then congrats, u can do the jump from windows to linux, but I doubt any average or even above average windows user who got a normal job (dealing with linus is not part of it) would have the free time or dedication to adjust his life to linux.
If average users suffer using windows in many cases, what do u think if they get to use linux? If it's not easier not just to do, but to understand and to interact, then average windows users are not willing to change their life style.
My experience in linux is limited to few specific uses depending on my needs, I used it last time to setup a server using QEMU and KVM and that didn't go well, I searched a lot and spent a lot of hours just to be able to adjust the command given to me by a guide article to suit my needs and my machine, if it was windows it would have been much easier for me.
Even if windows is bleeding users, which I don't know if it's true or not, those are not average users because average users will use windows their whole life and I doubt they will even know what linux is to start with
In the dnd I would love to see linux actually getting better than windows and not with the compromises u did and I will be happy to make the switch.
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Yes, there are compromises, but every day the compromises become less and less. Also, I have never had printer issues on Linux, while my Windows 10 using family has.
Desktop Linux is slowly growing, and even currently up by ~600% for Ubuntu between March and April. All this article is, is to say that the claims Linux has made about taking over are starting to sink in and take hold. Not that Linux will be bigger than Windows next year or even in 5 years, it will be a slow and steady process, but we are finally seeing singular distributions pass the 1% mark on the grand scale.
I won't lie, Linux isn't perfect and I prefer other operating systems personally (like FreeBSD). This article isn't saying that Windows will fall tomorrow, but we are seeing the end of the tunnel.
What I am trying to say is Linux is finally user friendly, not only that but is also supported by many OEMs, including large scale ones, and compared to Windows is a much better product overall. Yes you will absolutely lose out joining in immediately, but you have many great alternatives and choices to experiment with, and those who don't need Photoshop, Unreal engine, Roblox, or a couple other games, and can live with only needing to learn a little bit (as it is a different operating system family), Linux is rock solid and easy.
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thebtm profile image Brad github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I would like to add, Civilization V on steam doesn't work on windows 10 (for me anyways and on 3 different windows 10 systems) and I was disappointed when I couldn't and last year, I found out it would install on Linux and looking into it more, I found out it runs natively with Linux binaries. I was stoked to play an older game windows doesn't want to support on Ubuntu. I'm finding older games that Windows doesn't want to play, Ubuntu naively or with Proton will play them. There is that advantage too. ^^
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I know Civ V works on Windows, it's how I played it before I got into 6. Still a fun story none the less
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nikescar1 profile image nikescar1 github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I've tried Linux distributions since Ubuntu sent out free CDs and I've never had an install just work like a Windows install does. Whether it's wireless drivers, Bluetooth, Nvidia, touchscreen, or some other random peripheral, there's always some kind of hassle involved in getting certain hardware working if it works at all. And I've never got the battery life I do out of windows on a Linux install. I like the concept of Linux but just never been able to stick with it.
I'm looking forward to trying the new PopOS though.
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
"Whether it's wireless drivers, Bluetooth, Nvidia, touchscreen, or some other random peripheral, there's always some kind of hassle involved in getting certain hardware working if it works at all." - This is only partially true in modern-day Linux. I have seen every new update to the Ubuntu tree show more and more support, even for my old laptop where 20.04 came with a working driver port where 19.10 and Linux Mint 19 did not. While some things still struggle, yes, Linux already supports more drivers than Windows 10 in the kernel, and it has only been getting better.
Battery life, well it isn't as bad as it used to be, Linux power management is still imperfect, but there are easy tools, some hands free, that might be able to help.
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adwaitthattey profile image Adwait Thattey twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
The problem here is that hardware manufacturers take extra care to ensure support for windows. Not so much for linux.
Though I guess at the end it doesn't matter to end user. All they see is that things work seamlessly in windows and don't on linux
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navjack profile image navjack github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
You're incredibly off base here. I can't replace Resolve with any of the open source video editing programs. I can't use the Linux version of Resolve, it's just so feature incomplete and buggy. I can't replace Photoshop with Gimp. I can supplement Gimp with Photoshop though. Linux is a hobby OS as far as I'm concerned. I'll load it up in a VM or on a drive for a fun weekend project. I do that every so often with a bunch of distros just to see how things are progressing. They never progress. There are always regressions and dumb complications in the way to getting half as compatible and production ready compared to just installing Windows 10 Pro and enrolling in the fast ring preview.
There won't ever be a Linux takeover of market share.
Fragmentation and "choice" are actually the biggest issues with Linux. Y'all just need to get behind one distro and get proprietary drivers going strong and software support going less open source. That's the only thing I can think of because like, what Linux has been doing this long actually isn't working.
Maybe incredibly casual users are cool with Linux. Maybe hardcore developers are okay with it. But professional media (video and audio) people that need more than basic editing ain't gonna be okay with Linux.
Video not mine but definitely gets into good details.
youtu.be/DpXUQgCbtQw
Now I'm not anti other OSes at all. I love messing with Haiku, BSD, various Linux distros... But I'm Windows 10 fast ring all day every day every computer I own.
It is filled with adware, bloatware, lagware, and spyware.
I've yet to experience an ad in Windows.
What bloatware?
Lagware? What!
Spyware... Okay, there is telemetry for things in Windows and most of it works with features people rarely take advantage of and even if you don't use them it still collects. But it really isn't an issue.
Even now Windows 10 is slowly bleeding users.
Eh, it goes up and down in the big browser agent stats but Linux will still just be like 0.6%.
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kailyons profile image KaiLikesLinux twitter logo github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I have used Resolve on both Linux and Windows 10. I can say confidently that Resolve works just as fine on Windows as Linux. Linux is used in almost every major corporate entity in server space (par that of the 2 companies who refuse to use it), and in desktops, it is seen in Google and Amazon, others I am not as sure on the facts. Linux as a whole has been between 1% to 2% market share, the past month we have gone from 1.7% to 2.9% (the highest it has ever been).
Yes, Windows has bloatware. Lagware is applications that are either slow on their own or lag the system (non-intentionally). One grand example of lagware is the file explorer (especially when trying to search the drive.
The video you linked is outdated. Severely. Yes, 2018 is only a couple years away, but in 2018 we have yet to really see AMD smack Intel as hard as recently. Two years is about 20 in computer years,
Want to find an ad on Windows? Open your app menu, or just look very closely on your login screen.
Plus, as a Linux user who actually isn't too much of a developer (ironic considering where I posted this), and I am 17 with not a lot of computer know-how outside of Windows. I actually only started using Linux in late 2018 / early 2019 with Fedora 29.
I am a video editor, graphics artist, logo designer in my spare time. Even making Ubuntu Lumina isn't a tech-savvy process, just trial, and error. I would seriously recommend rechecking the facts and numbers in your reply too.
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ryanhossain9797 profile image Raiyan github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I am a full time Linux user, but sorry I really can't agree with this. You're listing out billions of reasons not to use linux and then going "but other than all those compromises everything else is great"
I'm not an expert but I'll list out some of the common problems I've faced using linux.
We all know we can throw professional work out the window if we're stuck not using Adobe's suite. You can be the special snowflake with the kdenproject file but it's not gonna sit well with your coworkers. Not to mention none of the alternatives truly fill the adobe gap, and especially because these alternatives don't play as well with each other as adobe's family does.
Gaming.... god where do I start? I didn't spend 4-500$ on a gpu to get upto 80% efficiency on wine or proton in many games, and 0% in some others. When PC gamers build their PCs many of them do it with the OS being a "means to start the game". It could be an empty screen with dropdown to select the game and a start button for all they care. I didn't spend this much money to get wine performance.
Linux is easy to install ha? well sure the default install is. So when I installed Pop_Os! a while back, I had a partition where I had things I needed to keep. The options were to "install alongside windows", "clean install", "custom install". I wanted to do a clean install while keeping that paetition. but this clean install wipes the entire hard drive. Install alongside windows then, oh damn pop needs a 500mb efi partition but windows' existing one is 100mb. Very useful.
Manual Install then. Make a boot, root, home, swap, efi... look up good sizes for them... check if your motherboard is uefi or not. Very user friendly. Oh well gotta do what I gotta do.
Yay popos is on. where's my other drive? oh I gotta mount it. Oh it disappears when I reboot. I need to set it to automount. Why can't I compile code from it? oh it mounts as root. I have to edit some file somewhere to mount it as the current user, can't be done from the gui.
All this could've been avoided if I were reinstalling windows. I could've deleted C: and installed windows, that's it.
App store haha. You're gonna run into an app that's not on the distro's own store nor available as an appimage or deb file the first day you install any distro. great, you'll find a nice link that adds the ppa and stuff. And then we get into the whole new mess of managing ppas. One of the reasons I moved to Arch and Manjaro is to use the AUR so I don't have to manage this stuff.
Linux is great, I hate windows like the plague and I'm absoluetly glad to be using manjaro on my work laptop and arch on my raspi without even any gui. But I never make the mistake of telling casual people to use a linux distro. It's silly and irresponsible. I hope windows goes away forever and I can use linux on my gaming rig someday, but not even gonna consider it now.
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adamflammino profile image Adam Flammino github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I'm a devOps guy, and I use Linux professionally every day. It is nowhere near replacing windows. You can see why not in your article- for the average home user it can do most (not all) of what people generally want to do at home, it is almost as easy for a new user as Windows, and it fixes some issues most home users don't care about. How does that set of traits come close to overcoming the inertia that windows already has?
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sxgithub profile image SX github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
I'm a developer but regularly put myself in regular user's shoes, I think for the average consumers Linux is still a whole lot more difficult to use comparing to Windows. Don't be proud of yourself because you are capable of typing a long line of 10 pipes fast, you would understand.
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v6 profile image Nathan B🛡 github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
This seems to make some implicit assumptions about how regular folks choose their software.
It's like how we make other choices in our lives: the man in the Television said so. I really think you're giving these hypothetical users of yours too much credit.
If it's installed on the laptop they'll use it, if it's marketed enough they'll use it, even if it eats their data and first born son alive, end of story.
And let's be honest, Windows hasn't eaten any small children since at least the 90s.
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wy193777 profile image Shenghan Gao github logoMay 11Dropdown menu
Except developers and people want to learn things about Linux, no one will want to switch to Linux. People only spend time on new os when the switch can add more value than the switching process cost. Apparently this is not the case now. Non-developers will not get more value from switch to Linux and in most cases they also have to deal with compromise.
I would guess dev
